Curse

Windf0rce · Jan 04, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

The question is pretty simple. I play Elementalists for a long time, but now I want to make a Barrage based character and I'm undecided if I take a Ranger or Assassin. I heard Assassins can deal better damage than Rangers, with their Critical Strikes and use some bleeding for degen. Is that true or not?

Please explain me which class/second class would do best for a Barrage build, Ranger or Assassin, or even another class. Thanks.

EDIT: I play PvE only.

Vexed · Jan 04, 2007, 02:41 AM // 02:41

I've played both and they're both viable.

Ranger prime will get you better raw damage due to maxed marksmanship and guaranteed e-management through expertise.

Assassin prime can get you better conditional damage if you get lots of foes bleeding, but spamming barrage without expertise can suck if you're missing critical hits (and don't forget, you have a hard time landing crits against high level foes).

Also, for Assassins, you have a lot of upkeep to do (sharpen daggers, critical eye, etc) to make the build worth running.

As for secondary class, well, the Assassin doesn't have any choice, and can only run a Barrage build one way. There are dozens of variants on Barrage for Rangers (Judge's Insight, Conjure spells, GfTE, etc) that Assassins simply won't have access to.

I like the ranger Barrager better than the 'Sin Barrager myself, but if you're having trouble getting your sin through some areas of the game, playing as a Barrager instead of using your daggers can be a good way to go.

pingu666 · Jan 04, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

probably ranger, as theres still sin discrimination :/

Sqube · Jan 04, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

For what it's worth, it's a little easier to get into PuGs sometimes if you advertise yourself as a critical barrager, so I don't think that's as big a consideration.

Amy Awien · Jan 04, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

I heard Assassins can deal better damage than Rangers, with their Critical Strikes and use some bleeding for degen. Is that true or not?

No, a primary ranger has a better Barrage, but it's a close call.

There was a thread on the Assasin forum a while back where we did some damage calculations.

XvArchonvX · Jan 04, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

An A/R barrage 'sin isn't a bad choice, but is simply lesser than a primary ranger using barrage. The biggest reason for this is that the bleeding that a 'sin barrager might inflict doesn't tend to do much damage at a -3 health degen when the target will likely die long before the bleeding will live out it's duration. The barrage from a primary ranger will likely kill any targets before a -3 degen could make much of any difference. This being said, I don't think this is a bad way to run a 'sin. I do however thing that the following build is probably better for a 'sin in PvE (although I will admit to being pretty inexperienced with 'sins in general):
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:A/E_Signet_Spiker
Too bad Blinding Surge can't be capped until late in NF.

Darkpower Alchemist · Jan 04, 2007, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I've played both Crit Barrager and Barrage Ranger in various forms, and tend to agree that it is a close call if the builds are similar, but the rangers natural variety as a primary ranger just outshines the sin's secondary barrage usage.

However, if your critical strike is high enough, e management isn't as much of an issue until the battle drags on for too long, which is the case in areas where a mob is nearly continuosly replenished. Cantha, for example has a few situations like this, but shouldn't discourage you from making the attempt of experimenting with either ingame.

Yanman.be · Jan 04, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

I'm a sin myself, and played both barrage classes. Go ranger, you can play other builds too then.

Sir Mad · Jan 04, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There was a thread on the Assasin forum a while back where we did some damage calculations.

Yeah I remember this thread, but as usually there was a bunch of numbers to make it look really objective despite the fact it didn't take into consideration many aspects of the game. Comparing the damage dealt by a sin and a ranger is impossible, since even if you try to include every variable, make charts for the different kind of bows, for foes immune to bleeding or that who ain't, include the time spent for casting sin enchants, the probability for a sin to run out of energy and have to use normal attacks till he gets energy back with a crit, make different charts depending on both the hp and AL of your opponent to measure the length and therefore the damage taken from bleeding, etc, there is still one more variable that is not clearly known: the probability of doing a critical strike - it's known it depends on both your level in the weapon attribute nd the elvel of the opponent, but last time I checked no one had figured how it works exactly. So in this case, I really think that personal experience > "math".

Now to answer the OP, this is very subjective, but IMO, sins are better than ranger in low level places: crit barragers are deadly in Consulate Dicks for example, better than rangers. But I find rangers more efficient in high end places where many foes can't bleed, and where their high level lower the probability of doing a crit strike.

J3mo · Jan 04, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Well since there is "Go for the eyes!" now, rangers outdamage assasins anytime.

Orange Milk · Jan 04, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Yeah, cause GfTE is up ALWAYS, uh huh.

Anyway, Zealous Bow will solve the Sins E issuses, but thats about it. A Sin can sharpen Blades/barrage, not much else.

The Ranger can add/change what he puts on his barrage to adapt to whatever part of the game he is in, which is why I love Rangers, they are versitle and adaptable morre than any other Prof.

anshin · Jan 04, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

The Ranger can add/change what he puts on his barrage to adapt to whatever part of the game he is in, which is why I love Rangers, they are versitle and adaptable morre than any other Prof.

yes... gotta love rangers....

to the OP... why not try both... and keep the one you enjoy more... simple as that... we don't have to tell you what you like best...

Coloneh · Jan 04, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

if your worried about damage, it is pretty balanced. rangers do more damage per arrow, but sins have a high chance to critical, and the critical arrows do more damage than ranger arrows.
I prefer a critical barrager myself

Maria The Princess · Jan 04, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

you wanna make a 1 elite based charcter??? what a waste

anyhow, make a ranger and you will see how great they are. they can do tons of other funner things then barrage. rangers can add tons of damage on top of that +17 arrow, and they have one of the best energy managemnt of all classes.

unless a sin is using daggers a ranger will outdamage a sin

and dagger sins are not barragers

XvArchonvX · Jan 05, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Even if A/Rs could out damage a primary ranger using barrage, they are as mentioned quite a bit more conditional since they are reliant on enchantments and the ability for the enemy to bleed to be able to do decent damage. Also, when I ran my 'sin as a Crit Barrager, I encountered energy problems often when I attacked only one enemy. Also interupting was a bit more inneficient since Savage Shot is really energy heavy with no expertise and Distracting Shot is often less practical for PvE with the longer recharge time.

Vexed · Jan 05, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Totally agree with Archon, a barrager should be able to interrupt here and there too, and 'Sins just can't keep up with that part of the equation at all like a ranger can.

If you really want to barrage all over the place, make a ranger so you can adapt the build. An assassin using barrage, while it works, just doesn't have the same versatility, and versatility is what makes Rangers fun.

Windf0rce · Jan 05, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Very informative thread; thanks much for the replies.

I have decided and I've created a new Ranger! Still far from getting the Barrage skill, can't wait.

Maria The Princess · Jan 05, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

hurray for a new young ranger!

you will enjoy him/her alot!

ZephyLynx · Jan 05, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Don't make a character based upon one elite skill. Barrage will get very, very boring if that's all you are planning on doing. I used to think that Barrage was t3h uber 1337 skill and played it all the time. Just hitting 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1....

Then I got very bored and went to monking. After a while, I came back to ranger, played many other builds, and now it is my favorite class to play. There are many builds with other elites that are fun to play. Barrage is good every once in a while, but will quickly get boring if you just use that skill. Have fun, experiment with other builds: spiking, traps, conditions, running, crippling, and many others (just don't play touch ranger...). Ranger is one of the most versitile classes, a "jack of all trades."

Sir Mad · Jan 05, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephyLynx

(just don't play touch ranger...)

Why not? <insert something here to meet the minimum number of characters requirement>